Welcome to the All Things Digital Podcast Series by Clarity Digital! In today’s episode we’re excited to host Google Ads expert Mark Kelly from Inbound Revenue. Over the next hour, Mark shares his invaluable expertise on Google Ads. Let’s dive in!
Podcast Summery: Mastering Google Ads: Insights from Mark Kelly on the All Things Digital Podcast
Introduction Welcome to the All Things Digital Podcast by Clarity Digital Agency! In this episode, host Al Sefati dives deep into the world of Google Ads with Mark Kelly, founder of Inbound Revenue. Mark shares invaluable insights from his 27-year career in digital marketing, highlighting the evolution of Google Ads, strategies for successful campaigns, and the importance of balancing SEO with SEM.
Mark Kelly’s Journey: From IT to Digital Marketing
Mark Kelly began his career in IT in the era of punch cards and card readers. His fascination with the internet during the late 1990s led him to explore eCommerce, where his introduction to Google Ads proved transformative. His early experiments with AdWords demonstrated the power of pay-per-click (PPC) advertising, which later evolved into a career as a Google Ads specialist.
Kelly’s IT background provided a unique edge in understanding the technical underpinnings of search marketing. This foundation helped him excel in creating efficient campaigns while bridging the gap between technical and marketing teams. Today, Mark runs Inbound Revenue, a company specializing in lead generation through Google Ads.
The Evolution of Google Ads
From AdWords to Google Ads
Mark recounted his initial experiences with Google AdWords, reminiscing about simpler times when keywords were exact matches, and search terms were transparent. Over time, Google Ads has evolved, incorporating more automation, sophisticated bidding strategies, and enhanced targeting. However, this evolution has come with complexities that can overwhelm users without expertise.
The Rise of Automation
The introduction of features like responsive ads and automated bidding has revolutionized campaign management. While automation streamlines processes, it also presents challenges. For instance, settings like “max clicks” can prioritize volume over quality, leading to irrelevant clicks. Mark emphasizes the importance of monitoring campaigns closely to avoid such pitfalls.
Key Strategies for Google Ads Success
Start with Clear Goals
Before launching a campaign, define its purpose. Are you aiming for brand awareness, lead generation, or direct sales? This clarity guides decisions about budget allocation, bidding strategies, and ad copy.
Choose the Right Campaign Type
Mark suggests starting with search campaigns using manual cost-per-click (CPC) or max clicks bidding. For local campaigns, combining phrase match and negative keywords helps refine targeting while preventing wasted spend on irrelevant searches.
Monitor Campaigns Regularly
Frequent monitoring is critical to optimizing performance. Reviewing search terms, adjusting bids, and adding negative keywords ensure campaigns stay on track. Mark highlights the importance of creating alerts and using scripts to manage budgets and flag anomalies.
Avoid Common Google Ads Pitfalls
Don’t Rely Solely on Google’s Recommendations
Google’s automated recommendations often prioritize its profitability over user success. For example, increasing budgets or switching to broad match keywords might not align with campaign goals. Mark advises taking these suggestions with a grain of salt.
Be Wary of Over-Automation
While tools like Performance Max simplify campaign setup, they can dilute lead quality. These campaigns may work well for branding but often fall short for lead generation. Mark stresses the need for human oversight to fine-tune automated campaigns.
Set Realistic Expectations
Digital advertising takes time to yield results. Mark emphasizes patience, noting that strategies like new bid adjustments require learning periods before delivering optimal outcomes.
The Role of SEO in Google Ads Campaigns
Mark and Al discuss the importance of integrating SEO and SEM strategies. While Google Ads delivers immediate results, SEO builds long-term visibility. Together, they create a harmonious approach, driving traffic and leads from both organic and paid channels.
Leveraging AI in Digital Advertising
Mark acknowledges the growing role of AI in Google Ads, particularly for tasks like ad copy generation. Tools like ChatGPT help marketers brainstorm headlines and refine messaging, saving time and effort. However, human expertise remains essential to ensure relevance and creativity.
Key Takeaways for Running Google Ads
Invest in Expertise
Hiring a specialist or agency ensures campaigns are set up and managed effectively. DIY campaigns often lead to wasted budgets and suboptimal performance.
Emphasize Quality Over Quantity
Mark underscores the importance of prioritizing lead quality. High-quality leads translate into better ROI, even if they come at a slightly higher cost per click.
Educate Yourself
While outsourcing campaign management is ideal, business owners should understand the basics of Google Ads. This knowledge helps them vet agencies and contractors effectively.
Consider Future Trends in Google Ad
Mark predicts Google’s increasing focus on automation and privacy compliance will reshape campaign management. He anticipates further reduction in visibility into search terms, posing challenges for advertisers seeking transparency.
Closing Thoughts
Mark Kelly’s expertise underscores the importance of combining technical knowledge with strategic thinking in Google Ads. From setting clear goals to leveraging automation responsibly, his insights provide a roadmap for successful campaigns.
To learn more about Mark’s work or to explore collaboration opportunities, visit InboundRevenue.com. And stay tuned for future episodes of the All Things Digital Podcast as Clarity Digital continues to explore the dynamic world of digital marketing.
By following these principles and staying informed about evolving trends, businesses can unlock the full potential of Google Ads to drive growth and success.
Transcription
Below is the transcription of the entire podcast for accessibility and user convenience purposes.
Hey, Mark, how’s it going? Fantastic. Thank you, Al. Thanks for having me. I hope you’re having a great day.
For our audience that don’t know who you are, do you mind introducing yourself? A little bit about background, where you come from and what do you do right now? Sure. Um, I’ll go way back. I started in IT back before, put it this way. I started in IT when there were cards and they had card readers.
It was a long time ago. Um, so I started in that business right out of high school because my dad owned a computer business. So I sort of just became IT naturally. Um, and then I worked my way up to IT director at a publishing company and then actually production director, which was a job that was, is one of those things where you rise to your level of, Oh, I hate this job.
So I rose to the point where I’m like, I wish I had just stayed IT director. I really liked that stuff. All these other things I didn’t like so much, but. As soon as the web came out in like mid 90s, I was actually working for a defense contractor then and I’m like, I don’t know what the deal is with this Internet thing, but I freaking love it.
I gotta find some way to work in this. So I thought about coding in there. Um, there was some early. We made some early attempts actually at the, uh, with the defense contractor I worked for to do some remote, uh, parts maintenance on how it serves and things. But the, the concepts were strong, but the speed and the software and the internet speed and everything else just wasn’t there in like 90, 98, 99 to do that.
You could do it easily now, but I just got excited about it. So I went to work at the publishing companies, the IT director, but I started an e commerce business because it was something you could do in the evening. Yeah. And one of the first ways I got business was running Google ads. So I ran Google ads.
I remember I started some Google ads. I didn’t pay attention for like three days. Yeah. It was called AdWords at the time, right? ? It was AdWords, actually. You know, it was, I started with something before AdWords. I don’t know if it was double. Was that O over Over? Double click over server was Overture. Yeah.
Yeah. Something like that. And then Google Ads came in. I don’t know if they bought them out or if they just decide, wow, this is great. I think Google AdWords, if I’m not mistaken, someone needs to look it up. May have. bought DoubleClick. Okay. Yeah. Because I remember I was working in something and I thought this is a cool concept.
Yeah. And when Google took over, then it was on steroids because now they had volume. Yeah. Yahoo bought Overture and Google, I believe, bought DoubleClick. And I advertised on Yahoo. It was, it was a thing then. Yeah. Yahoo used to be a good search engine before it stopped being a search engine. Yeah. Yeah. It was a good search engine.
And, um, so I started launching Google ads. I checked like I launched some Google ads and like three days later I checked my e commerce site because I just started it. It was a base gas site. I’m like, I had orders. I’m like, wow, this is great. Yeah. So I just kept leaning in on that. And then of course, Google ads, I was all e commerce then.
So Google ads eventually came out with frugal. Do you remember frugal? It was their free. Shopping site and you can just look up your products. Now that you’re telling me, I do remember the name. It was a free shopping site.
They converted into like Google Merchant Center and then Google Shopping. They kept the infrastructure, but then they said, it’s not going to be free. You can run your ads on Google shopping or run your books though. I understand there is still some free e commerce, but there’s some free. There’s a free feed and a paid feed.
And obviously just like anything else in Google, the free feed is being de prioritized in a favor of the paid ones. So if you search a product, majority of stuff you see in search results are going to be paid, but amongst them you’re going to see some organic listings as well. So it’s kind of like, it’s at Google’s mercy what they want to show.
As, as we all are. As we all are. So then a friend of mine who was doing some coding and maybe some early marketing said, Hey, I need help with some Google ads for a builder. And I’m like, sure, I’ll do that. So I started freelancing a little bit and then eventually it came down to, do you want to stay in it?
Or do you want to switch over? And I, that was right around 2008 when the market crashed and IT jobs were really tough. I mean, I could get an IT job, but not one that paid like I was used to making an IT. So one day I just rewrote my resume and sent it out there. And all of a sudden I started getting offers from marketing companies left and right.
I’m like, okay, I’m a paid search guy now. That’s so interesting. Cause that’s how I got into the whole SEO, SEM business as well. I. I was, um, I got my first job as , a QA I knew how to code a little bit from, um, just being a geek. So, um, as a QA automation, I think that’s what my title was.
And then I’m like, oh, this stuff is awesome. Let’s go to school for it. And when I got a degree in computer science, by the time I graduated, From computer science school. I’m like, nah, I don’t want to do this. And I launched an e commerce website and a couple of e commerce websites. And that’s how I learned SEO and SEM.
And then after, one of the businesses didn’t work out, the other one I sold after I did that, I, I became an SEO SEM person. And that’s a few years after you, but it looks like our, we have very similar journeys, , come going from tech to marketing, which actually, I think. It’s one of our strengths because we understand the tech limitations and background and we can talk to tech people and manage tech projects a little bit, which is great.
Which is very crucial for a successful search marketing. There’s a lot of tech, as in marketing. And then I think one of the things that drew me to Google Ads was the fact that you had um, a single interface and you had data available. Um, I had to learn SEO for my website for my e commerce business, which I later sold.
And I remember desperately searching around. I eventually Found Moz and Rand Fishkin’s whiteboard Fridays, and I just studied that religiously. But one thing I realized is I’m going to have to use a 3rd party piece of software to kind of give me an idea of what’s going on. And then I’m going to have to get links over here and do these things over here.
Whereas Google ads was 1 interface. I controlled back then. I controlled a lot of things. Yeah. Fewer things now. Yeah, sure. Uh, you, you were in control and it made sense because I was a data guy and, you know, used to having that. And so Google ads, uh, really lent itself well. Yeah, that it background and I’m not create.
I’m not a creative in terms of like having any design skills or anything like that. So I was never going to, I was never going to lean into website design. I did do 1 website and I realized right away. No, never do another website. Not my thing. And actually, but you can, but can, but you can easily work with website designers because your tech background, you can exactly tell ’em what you need and they can produce that for you, right?
Yeah. Things like, no, don’t put the phone number in. Tiny little numbers at the bottom. Exactly. Page. Yeah, for sure. Put it up here, put it up here in big numbers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The same way. Phone number, the same way, because when I was a coder, I didn’t care about some of this stuff, and when I became a marketer, I’m like, no, it matters.
And I think that really helped me become a better marketer and, um, compared to others. So that’s really awesome. So tell me, what do you do now? Are you still doing Google ads? Is this something that you do or are you more of a, actually, yes, I own inbound revenue. We’re essentially a Google ads, both white label and direct clients.
So we work with agencies, we work with direct clients. We do do some other things, but Google ads has always been the core of what we do. It’s our primary reason to exist. And yeah, I was just didn’t go out. I really enjoy being in Google ads accounts. Obviously, running the business is a little more challenging.
I think you and I were texting about this earlier. Like, I’ve got people texting my phone. Hey, is this zip code in this? I’m like, dude, I’m the wrong person to ask that,, we have a help desk. We have a chat. You got to ask those people that because I’m on like 17 different calls, but I try to stay in touch with all the, um, accounts, see what’s going on and, uh, continue to learn because as are constantly changing and you really have to be, you really have to be on your game now to be effective at Google ads.
And we do mostly lead gen. Uh, honestly, that’s enough right there. Well, we do do some e commerce. But we don’t do a lot of YouTube, don’t do a lot of display, don’t do a lot of that sort of thing. The Gen is, there’s enough right there in search and, and yeah, knowing all the things related to that. And it’s crazy because I’ve been doing it for 27 years and I’m still, No, and it’s I’m glad you brought it up because I feel like it’s really hard to be good at everything because things are changing a lot.
The user behaviors are changing. User trends are changing. Technology platforms are changing either to respond to this behaviors or they want to be more profitable. For example, I remember. Back in the days, uh, Google would run less ads above the full and you could actually see some organic results Right now everything you see is paying pretty much paid.
So as an seo first person I also know sem pbc fairly well But i’m mainly an seo person if you have to say which one you’re better at I would say seo Uh, I always tell my clients don’t run don’t do just seo anymore Maybe like 10 years ago. I would have just said hey don’t spend money in google ads You Just do SEO.
But now I’m like, no, even if you rank number one, it’s very likely , that you’re not going to get the type of traffic you want, because especially on mobile, if you look at, uh, you only have so much space on a transactional keyword. Sometimes you’ve got to scroll a lot to get to the first organic listing, , let’s say if you’re looking for a, let me think about a keyword like landscaping near me.
You’re going to see a bunch of like local service ads and you’re going to see a bunch of Google ads that you’re going to see Google listing with ads, your maps. And then by the time you get to the number one, it’s like you have scrolled so much already. And maybe you can tell us a little bit about the transition of Google ads from the days where it was AdWords, where you could actually see your competitor bids.
I remember I could actually see how much my competitor was bidding so I can outbid them if I wanted to and to which was a lot simpler to today. It’s got a lot more sophisticated and maybe you can talk to us a little bit about that. Well, it was. Now there might have been iterations before this, but I remember as far back as you basically just had like very simple text ads that I think were two or three.
Headlines, one description, period, that was it, they didn’t rotate, they didn’t, now they have responsive ads and they rotate and you have 15 headlines and then they grade your ad copy, which is, or ad score, which is really interesting because. You can pin headlines, meaning you can pin the headline one, two, and three, and they’re never going to change.
And you can emulate an old style ad that way. And they’ll immediately hit your quality score. But the thing we look at is, is it converting? So people will look and say, there’s a lot of, I guess, one thing that you have now, there’s a lot of information inside of Google ads that, you know, Someone who’s not particularly versed well in Google ads like quality.
They just want you to look at them. And, but people look and say, Oh, my quality score at 73%. And you’re like, it has nothing to do with anything that’s happening in your campaign. It’s literally just happens. Uh, did you apply or dismiss the recommendations they made? So that’s pure marketing uh, let’s go with broad match keywords. Let’s switch. I see a lot of that. Yeah. Increase your budget. That’s a, that’s a popular one. That’s a very popular one. Um, but if you go back to the old days, it was simpler. You saw all your search terms, like if people searched something to trigger your ad, you saw it exact match.
Keywords were exact match. Phrase match meant that they had that phrase in there. Yeah, you had broad match, but you had broad match modifier, which was a great option. Yeah, I loved the modifier. I was really bummed out. I took it out. It was, it was my favorite.
Google platform is doing. So we’re trying to get them the best results possible. And I feel badly for people that run their own campaigns. You don’t really know what they’re doing, which is most of them, because Google’s going to feed you to the lions out there metaphorically, and they have a pipeline right to your wallet if you’re, if you’re not really sure of what you’re doing and why you’re doing it.
Yeah, 100%. I remember that I had a boss when I was more of a junior level person and, I would read a lot of Google,, articles and I got Google certified, Google AdWords, at the time it was AdWords, Google AdWords certified and stuff like that. And this person this boss, I forget his name, but it was like obviously it was so long ago, over 10 years ago, maybe more. he said, Oh, you don’t want to do everything Google tells you to do because they are at the end of the day, they’re a publicly traded company. They need to, Make and Google ad AdWords at the time was it’s the bread and butter. They need to make money, right? They need to, , they have this quarterly report.
So they have to, they have to satisfy the meeting. They need to meet their financial goals. And so you want to take the advice with a grain of salt, which kind of goes back to what you’re saying right now. It’s like, Hey, review Google. There are recommendations, but you really need to have some experience and expertise to determine if those recommendations are good for you or not, because some of them are, they may be helpful, and I’ve seen helpful ones, but a lot of them are helpful for Google, not you, right?
Yeah, there are some, sometimes you’ll see like, oh, here’s a. Keyword that you could add, or here’s a keyword that is in conflict with a negative keyword. That type of stuff can be useful. Most of it’s not, but it is worth looking at. But what happens sometimes is. You’ll have a nice campaign performing nicely, and then the client will go in and just apply all and then boom, it’ll automatically apply all those.
And then they call you in a week and like my leads have dried up. And then you go in and you look, well, yeah, because you accepted all their recommendations and that just destroyed your, you know, it, it destroyed a high performing campaign. And once you get one working, you want, it’s like, uh, the Hippocratic oath.
You want to do no harm. You want to just tweak things. At that point, or run an experiment or something, if it’s working, you’ve achieved something. And when I say working, that means you’re tracking conversions and those conversions are quality conversions. Yeah, we actually have a policy at our agency and this is a new agent policies that hey, if you’re taking over.
So we manage campaigns in three different ways. One is just straight out consulting. You’re on your own. We come in, we audit it, review it, get on, I don’t know, bi weekly, monthly calls with you. the second one is more of a hybrid. There’s an in house person there, but those people like assign us specific things for us to do.
Like, hey, you up, you update the landing pages. You help us with adding filter, uh, not filters, negatives, things of that nature. The third one is full package and a , full managed service. And those we actually go and kick the client. Like we change the settings, we go to MCC, we change the password. We actually put in the writing in our agreements.
Like you cannot. That’s your campaign. You gotta let us know and give us at least one business days to make the changes , if there’s something you want to do urgent, , can grab the phone and call me. But you got a plan. You cannot go in there because we’re not in the business of explaining to you all the time what we’re doing.
We give you our weekly status report a monthly KPI reports and we get we jumped with you on the cause and by weekly basis. But you cannot do things because not have too many cooks in the kitchen, right? And then that’s right, cause a problem. And, , yeah. And if you don’t have the deep expertise and experience, , like you with years of experience kind of seeing the evolution of Google ads.
And it’s , now you gotta go,, clean that up, , and it’s just not a very efficient way to do. , so , why do you think Google does it? Just about, , their end of the bargain to make more money? Or do you think there’s also user trends are changing a little bit, and people are, with AI , and voice search and things like that, people are searching differently?
Frankly, I think people are searching exactly the same as they always did. Now you do see some trends, more mobile. Obviously you remember when mobile was like five or 10 percent of your search. Now it’s 50, 60 percent of your search or more depending on what niche you’re in. Um, they are reacting, I think sometimes to now they tell us this.
My problem is I don’t, I take everything with a little bit of a grain of salt for what they tell you. Uh, because I see them do so many things that are counter to like, they haven’t put in a lot of changes in the last five or 10 years that I’ve said, Oh boy, I really love that. That’s a cool new thing you did.
Mostly it’s like, Oh crap, you’re taking another. Yeah, from you. But one thing that, uh, in a conversation with, uh, with a Google support person who’s at the partner level. Um, so they usually know more. They said, for example, you’re going to see fewer search terms in the future. And we already don’t see many search terms, but they said what they have to do is.
State by state, people might have like Illinois might have one privacy restriction and California might have another one. So they just make it blanket because they don’t want to get in trouble across any of the 50 states. They don’t always know where the searches are coming from. So they just reduce.
For private, you know, they say for privacy purposes. Now, having said that, I just saw, um, a legal ruling. I don’t know if it’s a ruling yet, or if it’s leaning that way, but it’s basically like they, uh, have some sort of ruling against them because they’re not giving. Clients that data with which they need to make sound marketing decisions.
Search terms for one things that they mentioned there. You need to show people the actual search terms and what it actually costs. Um. Because people can’t make judgments and if people don’t know the difference between keywords, keyword phrases or what you put in there, like landscaping near me, search term is what someone uses to find your ad.
It might be a landscaper with, you know, kitchen experience near me or something like that. So your search terms don’t match your. Your keywords. Exactly. They’re the actual search terms that people use to trigger your ads, and they keep pulling that away. So it’d be really interesting and beneficial for us if we could see more of that rather than less of it.
Because that’s, you know, that’s a very good data to have, you know, what to add as a negative, what to add as a new keyword, that sort of thing. Yeah, I was in a one of the campaign search terms. Um, one of our PPC people persons is uh experts She’s on vacation. So i’m filling in for her and I went to search and i’m like Why are we showing up for this keywords?
We have no broad match running Um the best we have a lot of phrase match and exact match and i’m seeing some search terms under Um, where is it under insights? Is that so irrelevant and it feels like This actually going against what people thought Google ads was going to be, about 5 10 years ago, I was telling people that, hey, Google is going to make it easier for anybody to run their own ads.
And now I see that there’s more need for people like us, you and I. To help them run their campaigns because you’re going to get a lot of irrelevant keywords. And like you said earlier, people aren’t searching that much differently. They may have changed the devices, the way they search, but they’re still searching very similarly.
And to me it looks like, and I, this is just a, an informed opinion, but it’s not fact that Google is trying to, um, expand beyond just. And that’s probably why the rename beyond keywords. My apologies. And I think that’s why they probably renamed it from Google AdWords, um, to Google ads.
No, they want to do more non keyword oriented, um, because there’s more money in it. There’s display there’s a bunch of other stuff going on, which is. That’s when they came out with like B max to try to get on YouTube and everything else. The problem is, Those they may work for, they may work for shopping, but most of the time, everything comes right from, you know, google.
com is where your leads are going to come from. And they keep putting in these attempts to make it easy for someone to just create a campaign, which is great, except that they make it easier for them to create a bad campaign. The other thing I see when you talk about, well, is Google doing this on purpose?
I feel like with the amount of data they have, which is massive, the programmers they have, the skill they have, if I’m running a plumbing campaign in Dallas, Texas, even if I’m using Broadbatch, I shouldn’t get keywords like plumber in Atlanta. Sure. You have to know that Atlanta is not Dallas. There’s no confusion there.
A third grader knows that Atlanta is not Dallas. So if your sophisticated algorithm is still letting me get an 85 click on a search for a plumber in Atlanta, there’s something wrong there. Yeah, and yeah, I’ve already set up a campaign. This is like, Hey, I don’t I want to take, I want to, we’re frequently in this location and plumber near me, you know, is, but plumber near me is Atlanta’s not near me in Dallas.
Yeah, I I think like campaigns with performance max or not are. Probably, I want to say they’re more of a higher funnel type of, um, campaigns. , if your focus is just to generate lead, like you said, you’re a lead generation company, then your performance max campaigns will probably drive you leads, but not the quality you’re looking for.
But, uh, but let’s say if you are a, um, what your KPI isn’t lead, you just want to more awareness. You want to create like demand you want to, you want people to know about you, then performance max is okay. And I think that is about your goals of your marketing, right? What do you want to create?
Lead or do you want to create awareness? Like I think that’s really important before you launch your google ads It’s like before you launch any marketing campaign you put your money behind marketing campaign You want to figure out what is the goal of the campaign, And is this going to generate calls so I can get business or am I doing some branding and think that’s a pretty important thing.
I tell my clients all the time that you need to know what your goals are before you do it. And some companies do want branding and awareness, but your average local service company. Exactly. The plumber, the plumber, like the example you gave earlier, uh, or landscaper, the example I gave, they just want business they just want your phone to ring.
Yeah, exactly. And tell me about quality. You are a legion company. How do you guys determine. Good versus bad quality. Well, we capture everything. We use what converts whenever possible. We use landing pages and what converts so that we can control that experience. When you lose track of it as if someone says I want to use my website or something like that and then you have to use google tag manager and you’re just tracking a click but we Unless it’s medical or legal, we’re typically recording the call and what converts even has a little AI thing where it summarizes someone called and they wanted this service and they set an appointment.
So you can just read that and know it’s a good lead. It also has the ability, we provide our clients with the ability to log in No one does, but they can and say, this was a quotable lead. Here’s the sales quote. Here’s the actual revenue. So they can do that and give us information. And then we also see the form leads.
So you can just look, our goal is to get people marketing qualified leads as often as possible. So if you get in a bunch of junk. Do you use a CRM or a market information platform? We use, um, what converts which acts is very, very, okay. So that’s what he said. What converts? Sorry. I, I, I apologize. Similar to call.
Yeah. Similar or we use high level in many cases. The only challenge with high level. It’s. a great marketing automation piece of software. It’s got a CRM. It’s got all these capabilities. It’s trying to get the average small business person engaged with all the, we get excited on the marketing side about all the cool things you can do.
The clients are often less excited. Then we are about the G wiz features of, uh, of marketing. So they literally just want to phone to ring and if we can get them to, we get them to engage and tell us, was this a lead, but we can look, we can look with what converts we can actually look. See, does this seem like it was a marketing qualified lead?
And that’s how we tell, because one of my mantras and I have several, but one of them is conversions. Aren’t leads Google ads. People will look in their campaign and say, look, I got. 17 percent conversion rate. I got 28 conversions, but if they’re crap and they’re, and there’s someone calling for a job or someone from out of area, or that’s not a lead, that’s just a capturing of an event.
I was having this conversation with my brother yesterday because, uh, he’s in a, or it wasn’t yesterday, last weekend, sorry. And he’s in a, uh, he’s a loan officer and he works for a, uh, loan, uh, what do you call it? Broker. Yeah. So they’re on campaigns on Facebook and Google ads. They’re like, we get a lot of leads, but they’re like, Oh crap.
And when I listened to it, I’m like, what are some of the campaigns? They actually let me see. And I’m like, Hey, you’re not getting leads. You’re getting contacts. That’s all you’re getting. And you have to understand the difference that leads is when there’s an intent behind beyond your product, whether now or six months or nine months down the road, you, all you’re getting in contact, like you’re getting somebody to.
I think one of the meta campaigns was like, you want to look at, there’s a new listing in your area, check it out. And then in order to do that, you’ve got to click on a form and meta automatically fills out your form. And then you see it, it counted as elite. I’m like, that’s not elite. You just got a new email.
You got a new contact. That’s not elite. Elite is when there’s an intent. It’s like, hey, I want to make an appointment. That’s elite. I have this problem, this pain point, can you solve my pain point? Yeah, and even then, when you have a lead, that lead may not be a marketing qualified lead because it may not fit the categories.
Like, let’s say, if you don’t do VA loan, that’s not, that’s a lead, but it’s not a good lead for you because you don’t do VA loans, right? So, whether you can actually, the lead becomes qualified, whether you can actually do something with it. So I’m really glad you brought it up. And I think those are some of the things that people need to ask themselves, like, why do I need to use Google Ads?
I really, they really have to understand the strategy behind it and I, I find that a lot of times the problem is, Going in there just wanting to spend money without having a goal without having a strategy And I think we ask all those types of questions going in. Yeah Not that it’s surprising the number of businesses that don’t really haven’t really thought it through Yeah, well, I sent out an email recently.
I forget how many things are it’s like you should know these seven or eight things before you start google ads and it’s like You know, do you have a sales process? What’s the cost lead that you can afford? What’s your close rate? Can you afford to run for several months at breakeven or at a loss?
Because it’s going to take a while. If you check in a new bid strategy, It’s got a 14 day learning period and it’s still not up to date. It’s still not zoned in for 30 to 40 days. And Google will tell you not to touch that. And Google would tell you to do things like don’t set a max click. But when you look at a client’s account and there’s one click for 340, Google doesn’t have to answer to that client.
We have to. We have to. Yeah. To that client. So then you have to do things like set your max click cost so that your clients don’t freak out. However, you just affected the algorithm. Yeah. Because they wanted to just run wild and free like, uh, You know, and that thing resets every time you pause your campaign.
Now there’s some settings because we stick to search and leech in. There are some, and then I do want to come back to something we talked about earlier, which is branded campaigns and settings they took away from us. Um, but, uh, in a search campaign, typically we want to, you know, we typically don’t set a goal because when you set goals, it really doesn’t do anything inside of the campaign.
It’s one of the options when you set up campaigns, what’s your goal? We just say no goal. We build a search campaign because if you select a goal, then it tries to take you down a pathway. Um, so we just select no goal. You’re talking about when you’re starting a campaign and so whether you want to imagine, I don’t know, this is the no goals.
Got it. Got it. No goal. Just do search and then make sure you don’t include search partners. We used to include them, but now what we’ve seen is if you include search partners, it’s going to just. Uh, eat up all your money on search partners. Yeah, I don’t know who those search partners are. They used to be more transparent about them.
I don’t know who they are anymore. Always. Yeah. They’re the anything, , could be a search. I remember there was a time you could click on it. I would, or it would take you somewhere. You could actually investigate. Who they were like, I think like one of them was like site, like before my search engines, but now they’re like, they don’t know we have search partners.
I’m like, no, thank you. Uncheck. I think I actually asked you, I’m like, should I uncheck this? You’re like, Oh yeah, we, we stopped doing that months ago, something like that. Well, it used to be, you get like 5 percent of your traffic from search partners and they might get you some leads, but now it’s like 95 percent of your money will go to search partners.
If you, if you don’t monitor it and then always turn off the display network, of course. Um, cause you, if you want to run display ads, but that’s different than search, but they’ll have it. They still have it in there, even though no one should ever do that. And it’s checked by default you gotta remember to uncheck the search partners display. It’s just like Google trying to upsell. And again, all these things that you and I are discussing is the reason. You and I are in business. We’ve been through this. We’ve made the mistakes.
We’ve learned experience. We’ve been yelled at. And, now, Hey, come on, user experiences, hire us. Let us help you because by the time you do your learning, you might actually have to file for bankruptcy because I can’t exactly right. Yeah. It’s because the Google just can spend your money.
And I’m like, I don’t trust with machine learning stuff. I really, it almost makes me look like more nervous because before you used to have a max amount of dollar you would spend per click. You could do the math and you would get really close. And I, these days with this all machine learning and automated bidding and all this stuff like that, I’m actually more nervous.
And I don’t want to waste my client’s money. I don’t want to go over the budget. And especially if you just launch a campaign, and the learning is just really long and I guess maybe you can give us a little bit tip about, um, some tips about how we can go about things like that.
What are some of the things you can do? Uh, is it just checking the campaign every day, creating alerts? Uh, what are some of the things I can do creating scripts? Something I think we need to do more in my agency is maybe the campaign needs to pause when it gets a certain amount of dollar.
There’s some things you could. Do like if you’re worried about, uh, click fraud, you could set an alert up. Like if my click, if my click through rates above 20 percent because that’s super high, you know, you could get 20 percent on a really zoned in. old campaign. Um, but you know something like that. The main things I think are watching your search terms add negative keywords as much as anything else and getting those initial settings right.
We will either launch with manual CPC. It’s still very valid. The one interesting thing about manual and that’s where you’ll go in and set, you can set every keyword bid individually. It’s the only way to know exactly what the market’s Willing to pay for a click, because if you go max clicks, where you go max conversions, then it’s into algorithm world manual CPC is the only way to know, are they, is someone willing to pay 30 bucks for that keyword, because after a couple weeks, it’ll say, you know, you’re not you’re.
Bidding low or whatever. So you have to raise it up to get visibility. But that’s a lot of management. That’s why a lot of people go with max clicks. And there’s nothing wrong with max clicks. The theory with max clicks, or one of the negative things with max clicks that I’ve heard is that since it’s max clicks, it might get it might try to get you more cheap clicks.
And cheap clicks are not necessarily your best clicks. Because you said I want the maximum number of clicks I can get out of my budget every day. So therefore it’s going to go for the lower quality, uh, search phrases or less intent based maybe, but then you get a 340 click and you’re like, maybe not super important.
So I would start with either max clicks or manual CPC, but if you’re going to start manual CPC, you really have to monitor cause you’re going to have to adjust bids. So max clicks is easier. Okay. Start with exact match and, and, um, max clicks. That’s a fairly easy way to start. Check your search terms often.
If you go phrase match, check your search terms a lot, you know, um, because it’s going to pull up all of the competitor keywords and things like that. Yeah, and I’ve noticed that too, because phrase match, like let’s say for an attorney, we have, uh, let’s say that one of the, uh, things we’re bidding on is a trust.
Attorney, right? That’s a phrase match. Living trust attorney and I’ve seen name of lawyers. Of other agencies that also do trust in the search terms and this particular client specifically told us He doesn’t want to do any conquesting. He doesn’t want to do any competitor He doesn’t want to be a competitor because in his business if someone is Searching mark kelly.
They’re looking for mark kelly. They’re not looking for al safati So he doesn’t want to limp. He doesn’t want to dilute his very limited budget Into bidding on Mark Kelly’s like I don’t want to see no lawyer at lawyers showing up for my stuff So because of the phrase match and it’s not even broad phrase match We have to monitor the campaign almost every other day to make sure these guys don’t pop out and I just so It’s just so it’s just so frustrating That google phrase matches and what I remember it was which is like hey, you know, um, Not at all.
Yeah. It’s not at all what you remember. Yeah. , why is this, uh, company showing up? It’s, it feels a lot like broad match and, and I, but I’ve noticed is that markets and when I go exact match that I’m making it too tight and I’m getting no impression. That’s it. That was what I was going to say.
The change, some niches, there’s a lot of search. Or if you’re targeting a bigger area, exact match will work. But sometimes you’re not getting enough search volume. Especially local. If you’re local, right? If you’re local, then you could go max clicks and see if that makes a change. Or you go phrase match.
One trick is if, because phrase match, I always call it competitor match now. Because there’s so many competitor names ended up. Triggering your ad, um, do you can, uh, do some keyword research in advance and search GMBs in advance and create a negative keyword list just of competitors. And that way you’ve done your homework proactively.
It’s still going to find more, but if you can find a hundred competitors in that. You can create a negative keyword list, apply it to your campaign, and then you’re going to get fewer of those clicks up front rather than waiting for them to show up and then adding them as a negative. So you can be proactive.
It’s time consuming to look for all the landscaping companies in Dayton, Ohio, or, you know, all of the attorneys, all the trust attorneys in San Diego or whatever it is, but it’s one way to do it. Um, I’ve noticed that you also have to, oh, sorry, go ahead. Oh, first enough search exact matches. Yeah, exact match is probably a good thing for the national level.
And when you go local niche, like let’s say, even in LA where I’m at, it’s a pretty big area, but like the search volume for some of these keywords drop, because if it’s at a national level, it’s about, I don’t know, 2, 000 searches a year. L. A. Would definitely less than a thousand and as a thousand, that doesn’t mean that thousand clicks.
It means a subset of that is going to turn into clicks. So, yeah, the max click is good. But I noticed is that, uh, when you do this, uh, when you rely on Google, Google wants you, let’s say max click. If you’re setting is a max click, I’ve noticed that In order to get you the most click to bring the weirdest search terms just to get you the number of clicks.
And I think it’s just like you really have to monitor this thing. They keep changing the settings and once you figure out and like a good place where you add, leave it, stop touching it. Right? Because, uh, you don’t want to, you don’t want to change it anymore. Right? You know, because you finally find, Okay.
You know where you need to be. And that is the next challenge we have, then all of a sudden the client is our office is closed for a holiday and next month we’re going to be a bunch of people on vacation. Can you pause our ad? And I feel like we’ve got to go through this again because the learning begins again.
Starts over. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And so that’s pretty interesting. I urge people if they’re going to do that to just like, if you’re spending. You know, 150 bucks a day, just spend 30 or 50, at least let us continue to run these because otherwise when you come back in January and you want all that business, it’s going to be February before it’s gotten, uh, gone through that whole learning process again.
100%. And if you have a marketing automation and CRM, those leads that are getting from this campaigns while you’re gone are not going to be wasted. They’re going to go straight to your CRM. You can always contact them later. And you can always retarget them later, which kind of takes me to retargeting.
What do you think about Google retargeting campaigns versus the other ones out there? Well, you know, honestly, we don’t do a lot of retargeting. And the reason we don’t is this. Most of our people that we work for aren’t even spending, maxing out their search budgets. Yeah. Like you look at their search impression share and maybe they’re at 30%, 50%.
So I’d rather spend their budget to get more Fresh leads then try to get someone who’s come to your site, looked at your site, didn’t want to engage with you and then try to entice them back in with an offer or something. So unless you’re close to maxing out, we generally don’t do remarketing or recommend doing it.
We’ll do it if people want to do it. And it seems to work just fine. You have to plan for it. So you have to make sure that you create an audience and you build that audience the way you want to. Because you have to have an audience to target before you can run remarketing. But obviously, that’s our answer.
We don’t run a lot of it. No one asks us for it. And typically, if you’re not spending 80, you know, once you hit about 80, 85 percent impression share, you, that’s good. You don’t want to get 100 percent because it’s going to be super expensive. Unless you’re an attorney and you want your name on there every time.
No matter what it costs. Yeah, I’ve had to have that conversation with, attorneys and other people. How come I don’t, when I google my name, I don’t see my ad. I’m like, it’s actually a good thing you don’t see your ad. We actually, it’s made it so you don’t see your ad because we want the customers to see your ad.
And when I explain it to them that way, they’re like, oh, okay, that makes sense. But it feels like, Part of being a consultant or agency person is that you have to always be educating your clients. So maybe you can tell us a little bit about how you do that. Is it something that you do?
Yeah, that’s what I do. That’s awesome. Hey, shut up and listen, put your bill on time. One of the things that I do now is I’ll create videos where I’ll walk through Here’s where we started. Here’s what we’ve done. Here’s the campaigns we’ve run. Here’s the experiments we’ve run. Here’s the landing page we’re sending. Here’s what we’re tracking. Here’s our negative keyword list. And just sort of overwhelm people with data.
One of the challenges of Google Ads is because you can go in there and look at it and you can get anyone else to look at someone else’s campaign. But you can’t do that with People often follow along behind you. Why did you do this thing? Why is this keyword in here? Well, uh, a campaign’s never perfect.
Literally never. I can look at any of my campaigns. And say, man, I could do this and we could do that and do that, or they’ll say this keyword we had this recently commercial roofing. I think it was this keyword was paused. That’s what we do. Like, well, no, that keyword is paused because it got 25 clicks and never converted and because it’s not intent based enough.
Well, your offer is compelling. There’s so many things that go into it. That is one of the people can come behind you and that’s fine. You know, we do people’s campaigns in their Google ads accounts so they can see we’re transparent about it. But what you don’t want to do is spend a lot of time explaining why.
I can’t see my ad when I search for me. Yeah. Why is this keyword bid to this and that keywords bid to that? Like you really want me to spend my time making your campaign better. The other thing is my calls were down today. Well, this is a game of averages. I can’t do anything except maybe increase your budget to get you more calls.
Yeah. it just doesn’t work that way. When that happens, I get texts. I’m like, you want to spend more money? Um we actually have a rule here for some of those clients. So we work with different clients and shit. Like you, some of them are, Or they understand this stuff a little bit better.
The ones that don’t, I’ve noticed that when they send us an email, how come my ads isn’t, I’m not seeing my ads or whatever. We have a rule. It was like, don’t answer the email. Let’s see if they remember. That’s a good strategy. Uh, if they might forget by tomorrow, because it takes some time for a ramp up.
There’s a lot of AI machine learning involved. There’s, uh, Search impression, especially if you’re running local campaigns. For that day, there may not be enough people looking for appropriate litigation lawyer, you know, you know, or, or, or you’re now you’re, or you’re being cannibalized by. Local service ads or right that you’re not spending money or Google business listings or or whatever.
Or maybe you’re just not very attractive reputation. My reputation. Yeah. Or or yeah, and that kind of takes me about mentioning AI machine learning. Do you guys use AI in your campaigns? We’ve started to use it in to help us with ad copy. We never use AI exclusively. But I will use chat GPT and say I want 30 headlines for local landscaping and I want, um, features and benefits.
It’ll give me 30 and it’s just better than I am sometimes. I’m fascinated. I might take three. Cause yeah, you couldn’t blindly take them and use them and then I’ll switch it up and I’ll use the same prompt, but I’ll say, you know, humorous because that helps your ad stand out a little bit. If you have somewhere like, you know, it says something that stands out a little bit.
One of the things that we do too is use a piece of software that lets us look at other people’s current ads running today in that market and see what they’re putting in their ads. Cause you don’t have to write the best ad. You, it’s like the old story. You don’t have to be faster than the bear. You have to be faster than the guy behind you.
So we just have to write a better ad than what the other people are running. So we need our ad to have some numbers in. We need it to have a nice offer. We need it to be appealing and that sort of thing. That’s the key, I think, to add copy. So we use AI for that and probably for, uh, some for like a landing page copy, you just have to be careful as you know, because AI gets a little ahead of itself.
So yeah, that’s for sure. Yeah. A hundred percent wants to elevate everything. And you also have to be careful with some of these AI tools that I’ve seen. I saw an ad like, Hey, fire SEO and ACM agency. Now you use this tool. And I actually, I’m like, okay, let’s see what that tool does. And they don’t really, they do everything Google does.
The Google app, the machine learning stuff. I’m like, okay, this is one way for you to really go bankrupt. So you got to be careful with the AI. Again, you use it, but you’re being controlled. You don’t want it to control you, right? We’ve used it a couple of times for images where someone has nothing.
For their new auto detailing business, they’ve got no pics or no pics for the landscaping company. If you use AI often, if you, you know, continue to like refresh, you can get some pictures that don’t have like a zebra in them or something like that, that look good enough to put on a landing page. Better sometimes than a stock image, which is the worst thing.
To do, but you have to sometimes if someone has a Google business profile, they’ve never done a business they haven’t, or they take crappy pictures. So we use it for that every once in a while. I would say I don’t see it taking over humans jobs. Well, if you’re a writer, you’re probably screwed, but. It’s just an augment to what we do.
I would say it. I think it’s actually helpful for ad copy because honestly, after you’ve built out a campaign and you’ve done keyword research and you build ad groups and you’ve done all this and now you have to get 15 headlines. You’re like crap. I’m burnt out. So, yeah, we actually ended up hiring a writer, and I think, if you’re a writer, you just got to change your role a little bit to become more of an editor.
You want to brief chat GPT, what are AI tool you use to create a content for you? And you got to become more of a prompt person, right? Prompt, they call it prompt engineer. Oh, really? Is that what it is? Okay. Yeah, that’s what, that’s a new title. You just don’t tell them, hey, write me an article.
You actually have to keep telling and training it and give you the output and keep going back. You basically become, and at the end, you edit it and say, And to become, um, less robotic uncovered 10, instead of using those words like that uncover or discover, like he made all those languages that we don’t usually use.
I think writers just might have to position, change their role. a little bit instead of writing from scratch getting the writer block you can produce a lot more content and become more of a Prompt engineer prompt editor, whatever you want to call it And I think that’s what you and because of that we’re producing a lot more content I just came back from conference like AI isn’t good for you.
I’m like no AI Content is good as long as you are in control, not it telling you what to write like all the blogs. Now I write on our blog. I get AI, but I tell it exactly what I want. I’m like, Hey, this is what I want to say. That’s interesting. So you’re not just relying on it.
Like if I read an article about Google ads. Yeah. It’s written by ai. Yeah. I’m like, that’s written by ai. Yeah. They used all the right words and everything, but they didn’t say anything. That particularly made me think they know what they’re talking about. Yeah. That’s where that large Yeah. I I go in there, this is what I want to say.
I want say in know, like I wrote an article, but enterprise, SEO audit, it ranks number one in Google as of yesterday. And the reason it ranks is even though we use AI to write it, we. got AI to assist us in writing it. I wrote a brief for it. I said, these are the points I want to say. I put a one line next to it.
And then I went and added more context and padded a little bit. And even then I reviewed it a couple more times and I edited it, prompted ai, and then I sent it to my editor. I’m like, okay, now change, edit it again. Make it more, um, yeah. If you didn’t know your subject matter, you wouldn’t know what to ask it.
Yeah, and I think that’s a difference between the good content of ai. So we should what’, the point of a strength is that, whether it’s for Google ads, se, or other stuff, embrace AI by you being charged, don’t let it be in charge of you. Because then you’re risking. Well, have you noticed, I don’t know if you see this, I’m, I use Facebook, uh, a lot for business and everyone now is an AI agency.
And I’m like, I don’t even know what the hell that is. I don’t think you what the hell that is. Yeah. , I being a computer science guy, when I get on the phone with some of these people, they don’t even know the fundamentals of AI. They don’t even know the differences of AI. They were crypto experts two years ago.
Two years ago. I think they’re going to be experts again. Have you seen, uh, the price of Bitcoin recently? Yes, they’re going to start coming out of the woodwork. They’re going to come back again, man. There’s going to be AI crypto. There’s going to be a whole new thing coming out now. Yeah, talking about that, um, what tools do you guys use for like keyword Google’s tools or do you use I still use the Google Ads Keyword Planner.
I think it knows as much as anything. Um, there might be times I’ll use a free keyword tool just to see if I can explore and find something different. I’ve just never found one that’s better. Yeah. Yeah. I’m the same. we use SEMrush and SpyFu, other type of tools when we are doing competitive analysis and when we’re doing SEO, but when we’re building our campaigns, but we rely a lot on Google ads because they, they know more data obviously than third parties, right?
Um, and they have incentive for you to feed it more keywords. You can, so they can make more money. So that’s really good point. And, um, and I guess, uh, we have only a few minutes left, if somebody wants to get, um,, become successful in the Google ads campaign, what is some of the general guidelines you have for them?
Some tips and insight other than, Hey, come on, hire me what are some of the things that you do? Yeah, that’s the number one. I think, I think you have to, one thing that I think is really hard for people is if they’re not going to run their own campaigns, which they probably shouldn’t, is You have to know enough to be able to vet your contractor or agency.
Cause trust me, most of them don’t know what they’re doing. It’s a thing they’ve added on to their. agency and they’re not very good at it. We see it all the time, but it’s hard for you as a business owner. You’re running your roofing company to be able to vet someone and know that they know what they’re doing.
So that’s a challenge. And then having the budget, the patients, the sales process so that you pick up your phone I mean, that’s like, I don’t know how many times, you know, that’s like the number one market or complaint is like, pick up your damn phone. Um, you know, cause you paid the money, you paid us or don’t put it on forever to hold because people are going to hang up or don’t answer.
Hey, we see that with contractors a lot. Hey, you can’t do that. Um, you spend all that money that you spend 200 bucks to get that lead. Um, and then patience and then, um, feedback is a great one. If you can give us feedback about these are the leads that we got and here’s what our thoughts are about those leads, because otherwise we’re just going to keep generating the best leads we can without your feedback if you’re not going to give it to us. Feedback is great. Yeah, that’s really awesome. So Feedback training them, enabling them, help sales enablement, like you mentioned. Um, where do we learn how to become better? Google Ads people. Is it YouTube? YouTube. Just go on YouTube and, and there’s a few courses.
YouTube, you just have to follow. It’s like anything else? Follow Mark Kelly, right in Matt, revenue call Mark Kelly or Rob or Surfside, PPC, or uh, yeah. That’s so there’s certain people. It’s like when I was trying to learn SEO and I’m like getting all this different information. You just have to find someone that has some credibility.
Um, and follow them. Is that what you bug me every morning? Yeah, that’s why I’m like every morning texting you like, yeah, how do I do this? Uh, search engine stuff. Um, yeah, it’s a challenge. I gotta admit. But then again, if you’re a business owner, you probably shouldn’t be learning Google ads. That’s so important.
I actually, One of our legacy clients, I started working with him and he was only spending 500 a month in his Google ads. And he was paying me 500 a month to do SEO, SEM, bunch of other stuff. And it was when I was just getting into this as a freelancer and 500 is always a good money. Maybe not now with the inflation, but like 10 years ago, eight years ago, it’s good money when you have a full time job.
That 500 is additional money that you make that you can do it at night. So I was okay with that. Now I have grown him to be a much larger client, and he spends a lot more in everything, Google ads, SEO, everything. And the only thing he did that is different than then is that he hired a marketing manager or coordinator.
He got himself out of that loop. He hired a marketing coordinator or assistant. That person helps with all things marketing. And we worked with that person to run SEO and SCM campaign. Things have got a lot better. You get you, if you’re business owner, you shouldn’t be running your own campaign.
You should at least work with, for future agency owners and contractors. The two worst people to work with are the person who ran their own campaigns and thinks they’re really good. And then they hire you because they’re just going to be up your butt. And the other worst person is the guy who, on their initial sales call says.
I’m not a micromanager. I will never micromanage you. They’re telling you I will micromanage the living crap out of you, um, for the rest of your life. So those are the two things to avoid if you’re getting into this business. Yeah. Cool. Well, I think we’re running out of time. Maybe tell, tell our audience one more time where they can find you and what scope of Google ads work they can expect from you if they ever wanted to work with you.
Inboundrevenue. com and you can find me on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, or YouTube, Mark Kelly. Well, I think look for Inbound Revenue. If you go on YouTube, I try to put a bunch of videos up there. I’m active on Facebook, Twitter, and somewhat on LinkedIn. Awesome. Cool. And on this podcast. Yeah. We’re going to have you again where we have more, uh, Specific topics on around Google ads or any other topic.
But I think we might have some sessions about just performance max or about like more specific things. So I look forward to having you back on again, or maybe I actually want to have a session about the harmony between SEO and SEM, because I think this is more important than ever.
That’s a good discussion to have. So we should definitely have you back on. So I look forward to that again. Thank you so much for your time and we’ll be in touch again for future podcasts. That sounds fantastic. Thanks. I appreciate you. Thank you. Take care.
